Progressive Media SHOCKED by Dem BDS Vote


All right, let’s give this a shot and see
how it goes. I think this is going to key. Interesting. I told you at the start of last week that
I have been self censoring myself on some topics, not because of monetization you reasons
on youtube, but because of an effort basically to preserve my sanity. I did a long segment last week explaining
that I’ve tended not to take on certain topics because merely broaching the topics is me
choosing to deal with two weeks of nonsense on my social media feeds and email inbox and
youtube channel. Uh, and some of those topics include everything
from talking about the squad in anything but the most glowing terms or talking about Venezuela
in anything but glowing terms or even mentioning Tulsi Gabard or the Israeli Palestinian conflict
of some examples. So today I’m going to talk about sort of the
Israeli conflict. I’m going to specifically talk about a vote
that was taken in the United States related to what is called the bds movement last week. And, yeah, I mean, to some extent, I don’t
know why I’m doing this, uh, but we will see sort of what the reactions are. I’m making an effort not to self-censor the
reactions to my segment last week where David, we understand that we may disagree on some
issues, but don’t self censor. You will be surprised at actually how people
will respectfully engage you on the substance rather than, uh, going down the Ad Hominem
antisemitic rabbit hole. For example, if you talk about this bds vote. So let’s see. Let’s see how it goes. Um, let’s do it. Uh, my, my only request is listen to what
I’m actually saying. If your comment or your response is not based
on what I’ve said, then it’s worthless and I’m going to ignore it. Okay. Recently there was a vote in the House of
Representatives, HR two 46 easily passed with both democratic and Republican support. I believe it’s 17 Democrats voted against
it, but numerous so-called progressive heroes voted in favor of the bill, uh, to condemn
the boycott divestment sanctions movement against Israel. And this includes Ro Khanna, who I know a
little bit personally. This includes Diana Presley from here in Boston. This includes Tulsi Gabard, who voted in favor
of the bill to condemn bds, and it instantly spun some elements of the progressive media
sphere into disarray. We’ve been betrayed. How dare these so called progressive’s vote
in this way. So let’s break it down piece by piece. And again, if you’re going to respond with
anything that includes, for example, comments about me being Jewish, that is not what I
would call a substantive response. If you’re going to respond with smears about
these elected officials who voted one way or the other, that’s not a productive conversation. Let’s actually talk about the substance. Let’s first start with the premise that I
imagine all democrats, uh, who are considered themselves even remotely progressive. So this includes people like Rocana and I,
Anna Presley, who voted for the bill and those who voted against the bill. I believe that we all share the goal of wanting
Israel to change its policy towards Palestinians. I believe we’re all United against the right
wing government of Benjamin Netanyahu, which I’ve been talking about my opposition to for
years, and I think my progressive audience is basically on board with, so then we get
to one element of this, which is the bds movement. The bds movement dates back to 2005 again,
it’s bds, boycott, boycott, divestment sanctions. The idea is to force or shame Israel into,
I guess treating Palestinians better as they see it by boycotting Israeli businesses. This includes individuals participating in
boycotts. This includes lobbying businesses and even
countries or city governments, local governments to boycott Israel. So let’s charitably assume in good faith that
bds supporters truly believe that bds will push the government to change in this respect. My first disagreement with bds is that I disagree
that it will work. It’s a pragmatic disagreement. The first bit of evidence is that it’s been
around almost 15 years and it has accomplished almost nothing. Now, I know people will write to me and they’ll
say, but David, there have been some localities or some countries, I think Ireland had a vote
where they say we are not going to do business with Israel. Uh, and that’s true. There have been some academic departments
that have said we are going to boycott and divest from Israel. Many of them don’t even have investments or
business with Israel to begin with. The point is nothing has changed in terms
of policy or in the improving of the lives of Palestinians as as result of the bds movement. And it’s actually stunning in fact, because
they’ve had a pretty significant PR impact. I mean, again, entire country speaking in
favor of the movement and yet there is policy. We all disagree with those of us who favor
bds and those of us who oppose it and none of those policies have changed. Now there is a big argument that takes place
around bds. Is bds antisemitic? And the answer is, here we go. Now listen to what I’m going to say. No. BDS is not inherently antisemitic any more
than boycotting. China is inherently anti Asian or boycotting. Saudi Arabia is anti Saudi or anti Muslim
or anti Arab or whatever. But bds does provide cover for lots of antisemites. Again, importantly, without having achieved
anything of substance over the last 14 years, bds as successes include convincing some artists
not to do concerts in Israel. It’s not doing much for the Palestinian people. I want to do something for the Palestinian
people. They’ve had colleges vote in favor of bds
proposals, the number of which has been declining over the years. That’s starting to fade. And meanwhile from other places, there are
record investments in Israel. New Jersey divested from a bank that participates
in bds, Ohio made record investments in Israeli bonds, intelligence scaled up Israeli investment. Dozens of examples. So listen, I get it. This is a tactic that might work. I don’t believe it has worked and I think
that we need to go in a different direction now. There’s another problem which is that it’s
very overtly and Al boycott Israel when it’s convenient movement, but not other countries
because it’s inconvenient. And as soon as it’s not convenient to boycott
Israel, I won’t boycott Israel anymore. So let’s go through it. What about China? Right? China’s human rights abuses are horrible. Who’s boycotting China? Well, very few people because we need those
Chinese products. Whether it’s your iPhone, whether it’s other
electronics, whether it’s clothing, whatever the case may be, it’s simply not practical. They say to boycott China, boycott Israel
is much more practical until of course you need the emergency bandage that was used to
save the life of Gabby Giffords when she was shot. Or we still for boycotting that and using
a subpar product to save a life. I don’t think so. Boycott Israel until a family member needs
a medical treatment or humanitarian efforts, need Israeli products boycott Israel until
uh, a family member has multiple sclerosis, in which case most people will say, yeah,
let’s just use the good drug, which is the one developed by the Weitzman Institute and
sold by Teva pharmaceuticals from Israel. So let me be really clear about why I’m mentioning
this. I don’t want people to forego what is the
best treatment because they want to boycott Israel. What I’m pointing out is then it’s soon as
it’s inconvenient. The boycott falls. Do you shop at trader Joe’s? Last time I was there. Terrific. Israeli fed a cheese at trader Joe’s imported
as well as other Israeli products. Are you supporting there but saying that you
support bds cause there’s an inconsistency. Do you shop at whole foods? Whole foods has actually made a statement
where they said we do not boycott Israeli products at whole foods. Well maybe you go to stop and shop if you
live in the northeast of the United States. Wait a second. Stop and shop is one of the biggest Israeli
product selections around Passover, including those really great chocolate covered marshmallows. So are you actually boycotting, are you sort
of repeating the talking point without understanding what’s going on? So the problem with bds is that it is as ineffective
as it is capricious in its application. Okay. You won’t buy a soda stream to make your own
seltzer, but when the rubber hits the road, most people will abandon their principles
as soon as it’s necessary or convenient just to go and do the grocery shopping. So in the end, bds asserts nothing that will
promote peace. It is simply failed and it divides the left
groups that would be very glad to work together. Like for example, Jewish groups that are for
Palestinian rights, for getting rid of the Netanyahu administration for stopping the
settlements but aren’t in favor of bds, would be able to be working with so many of these
other groups if bds was not driving this wedge between them. So then we get to this vote on HR two 46. Uh, there are people who thought Rocana was
great as an example, California congressman, until he voted in favor of the bill and now
they are insulting him or saying, well, the reason why Rowe Kinda did this is because
he supports Bernie and Bernie’s Jewish and clearly Bernie, uh, hypnotized Rocana into
voting for the bill. Maybe Rocana just assessed the circumstances
and decided it made sense to vote for the bill. Oh, David, you’re against the, you’re, you’re
for the bill. You’re against it. Whatever your position is informed by being
Jewish. Maybe. I just think that this is really a distraction
of a bill and that bds is a wedge that is going to get in the way of us advancing our
a shared goal of improving circumstances for Palestinians and Israeli Palestinian peace. What would unite the left would be to say
at its basic principles, we need a president here in the United States who is not going
to give divisive gifts to Israel like moving the embassy to Jerusalem. We need to recognize that the left is in agreement
on 95% of this issue. I simply disagree that bds will work or that
it will unite any important coalitions in order to achieve the change that we all want
and sadly it does also function as a veil for some antisemitism. For some people. That’s my view on this issue. I’m ready for the criticisms, make them substantive. I’m going to ignore you if it’s about me being
a Zionist shell or whatever else that that’s not serious conversation. I’m looking to actually explain to you why
I think this is a movement that has already failed and that there are ways in which we
can work together rather than arguing about bds to improve the lives of Palestinians and Israeli Arabs and quite frankly of Jews
around the world as well who don’t benefit from the continuation of the status quo. Let me know what you think

Maurice Vega

100 Responses

  1. The more people fear to criticize israel all the more reason people will hate Israel. We criticize our own country,USA,where we live and breath,why not Israel? Why pretend not to see the BIG elephant in the room? fk outta here..

  2. Could BDS be so ineffective because pro Israeli arpatheid elements(including the US Congress) are so effective at haranguing and torpedoing the movement? Btw there are also Jewish groups that are pro BDS. Even if you disagree with and think the movement is ineffective, isn’t it a literal violation of the first amendment for Congress to condemn it? Come on now man, don’t be a mouthpiece for AIPAC.

  3. Most/all of what you're saying is true, but they aren't convincing arguments when the conversation is about the US government condemning it.

  4. If your arguments are correct then resolution was unnecessary distraction… So voting no or just not voting would be just as good but not controversial without giving government of Israel legitimacy with what they doing…

  5. I don’t think that you’re understanding the critique. This is about the government labeling the movement as anti-Semitic and allowing for supporters of it to be discriminated against in regards to employment. Personally I think boycotts in general are pointless but that’s not the issue being contested.

  6. Idiots are tricked into supporting anything Israel due to Zionism or the religious belief that Christianity will culminate in that country. At the same time you must believe that all Jews would be going to purgatory —–> hell. Unquestioned support for a doomed people , I believe, is unique to American hicks. Side note: A pure red heifer was born like a year ago somewhere in Israel…..i don't get why people don't talk about that.

  7. I would recommend a redirection to Kim Iverson for another very thorough explanation of the possible/probable reasons some voted the way they did. BDS movement is not all it seems

  8. David, you've missed the point of the issue with the vote, which is freedom of speech. Your ability to boycott is an expression of free speech, and when the government tells you who/what you can or cannot boycott against is an infringement of free speech. My issue with those that voted no is solely about this. I personally am not for or against the BDS movement. I do think they have a right to express themselves, and if that expression is a boycott, so be it. I am not for or against burning the flag, but if someone wants to do so … it is their right as protected speech.
    Now if BDS folks go around destroying Israeli products in stores, stores, or companies that do business with Israel themselves, that's a different story in the same manner someone burning a flag and throwing it on people or someone else's property would be different than just burning the flag as a statement.

  9. I've never heard of BDS before this became an issue for the Senate. Not even when I heard about that teacher being let go for not being willing to give up her Constitutional rights, which I guess was related… Maybe this will have a "Streisand effect" and bring more traction to the idea of at least putting preasure on Israel?
    Other than that, I hope the issue of banning personal political opinion in the US is adressed soon.

  10. Much of the world is horrified by the way the Trump administration is dealing with migrants on the border(amongst many other things) So should the rest of the world unite and boycott America and American businesses? This would be preposterous and unfair on American people. BDS isn't supported by all anti semites but it wouldn't exist without anti-semitism. Left wingers have taken on the mantle of the islamist fundamentalist narrative against Israel and what Israel is and represents. Yes, the Netanyahu government is not the Israeli government I am happy with but the comparison to South Africa etc is not based on any form of reality on the ground. It is a far different, complex situation that exists in Israel. Whilst a more left leaning israelie government would be great, being Prime Minister of Israel is no easy job and I rarely see a substantive response as to what Israeli policy should actually be

  11. Although I am not Jewish, I do identify with the old line Labor-Zionist movement which was support for Israel as it was conceived by the Jewish Socialist Zionists that helped created the country and totally governed the nation for the first three decades of its existence. Even as recent as 20 years ago, I was still a staunch supporter of Israel. In the last decade, they manage to elect their worse prime minister ever, and he is a criminal thug. Anyone who would accuse me of anti-Semitism for denouncing the Likud government are full of crap. While I moved from my once strong support for Israel, it would be a mistake for anyone on the left or anyone in general to support its destruction —because destruction of the State of Israel would exterminate not only potentially million(s) of Jewish lives, but also million(s) of Palestinian lives as well. No one should ever want that. Although I still do NOT support BDS, I support their free speech rights because free speech must be protected even if it mean offensive speech. If I would have been in the US House as an elected Congressman, I still would've vote no on this particular anti-BDS legislation which only denounced it instead of criminalizing it. That's because of the slippery slope argument, so I would've ended up voting similar to "the squad" although my position on Israel would still be "to the right of the squad."

  12. You didn’t differentiate between boycotting all of Israel v boycotting the illegal settlements. That’s bad journalism.

  13. Money talks. You and Ben share an extreme bias towards protecting Isreals bullshit. An American backed boycott would take money and commerce away from Isreal shaming them especially after America has been paying them reparations for ages now.

  14. It’s only business participating in the illegal settlements that are being boycotted, not all of Israel. C’mon. This is a targeted boycott & you’re acting as if it’s a blanketed one, which maybe some are saying that, but as you said that’s kinda iffy if it could work.

  15. David is basically pro apartheid and super protective of his people to the point of making up asinine analogies about cheese and china to try to gaslight people. The measure flat out says BDS is anti semetic those who voted for it agree with that. Stop the gaslight bullshit. When you don't have one single good reason and keep trying to come up with myriad reasons all you're giving us are excuses.

  16. We should support BDS and give it more teeth. It's exactly because it's undermined by politicians and the media (because of lobbying power) that it is not effective, so David's analysis on this is upside down. Boycott worked against South Africa.

  17. I am no fan of BDS, but this vote should have never happened. Why is Congress taking a position on whether BDS is anti-Semitic? I also disagree with trying to blacklist people for supporting the movement, even though I disagree with it. The sane thing to do would have been to abstain from voting, on the grounds it was a pointless resolution, although if you did that you would be called both an anti-Semite and an Islamophobe by either side in this hyper-partisan atmosphere.
    That being said, I really do understand the Democrats trying to go after BDS for trying to hijack their party. I went to the University of Massachusetts, Amherst. A few years ago, the union of graduate students voted to support BDS. I thought at the time, why the heck are these people voting about a conflict across the world, why aren't they negotiating for better wages/accommodations for graduate students, like what a union is supposed to do? I have seen in happen to other unions. A small minority of people that support BDS are trying to turn all of the organized Labor movement against Israel. Suddenly, it is no longer about representing the working class person, but getting involved in some foreign war. And, if you work in a company with a union, you HAVE to be part of that union, even if you don't want to support BDS. Trust me when I say that these BDS people will either cause every state to pass Right-to-Work laws, or cause the collapse of organized Labor.

  18. lol it's so ineffective the Israeli government, defenders of the Israeli government and MSM are dead set on smearing the movement as anti Semitic, so ineffective Republicans are passing anti BDS laws in several states, clearly there's a momentum. David Stance is the same as Reagan against the Boycott of South Africa "of course we all want the emancipation of the black South Africans but boytcott is not the way to go" fuck outta here.

  19. Pakman is a disgusting right winger when it comes to Israel. He absolutely ignored how successful BDS-esque tactics worked in Apartheid South Africa

  20. BDS is an important movement David and progressives could really use your support on this one. Maybe it hasn't been efficient to this point but we can build momentum and turn the movement into something greater. Israel shall be condemned until their government gets their act together. I'm a Jew and most of my family was wiped out by the Holocaust btw.

    The Palestinians deserve equal respect and dignity. A peaceful two state solution is the only logical way forward and BDS is an important part of that process.

  21. I would like some effort to curb the murder and the fundamental unfairness of what is happening there. It should surprise no one that our masters won't allow it.

  22. David and Kyle Kulsinski need to debate this. I have full confidence they could have a civil discussion on this. Who wants to see that happen?

  23. Next you'll tell me Democrats are basically the lite version of Republicans and we don't actually have a left-of-center party in the whitehouse.

  24. As a Coptic Christian with family still in Egypt, I don't know why there isn't a BDS movement against Egypt. Egypt receives $1.5 billion in annual aid from the U.S. and treats its Christians literally like garbage. Garbage from Muslim neighborhoods is literally dumped in Christian neighborhoods and the whole garbage disposal function is left almost entirely to Christians. On top of that, we have the honor of having our churches bombed by the Muslim Brotherhood on a fairly regular basis and the U.S.-supported non-democratic military government of Egypt does little to nothing about all this. Oh yeah, and on top of all that, Egypt blockades the Palestinians from Gaza's Western border. Incidentally, pre-1967, Gaza was actually part of Egypt. All this and no one here even mentions Egypt. Disgusting.

  25. DAvids arguments are beneath him and he knows it
    Key points –
    1. US tax dollars pay $3.8 billion per year to Israel in defense
    2. Israel continues to ramp up Human Rights Violations
    3. Americans have the right to protest against their governments complicity in these atrocities
    4. UN has continuously condemned the Israeli abuse but not the US
    The comparison about why not boycott China etc ( see point 1) – David is far too intelligent to not know this (willful ignorance, always re: Israels despicable behaviour). THE PEOPLE HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO PROTEST TO THE BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS COURTESY OF THEIR COMPLICIT GOVERNMENT. THIS IS NOT WHAT AMERICA SHOULD REPRESENT

  26. Is that how far up the supply chain one has to go to effectively boycott something? I didn't know I had to stop shopping at Wholefoods or other retailers that carry/sell products imported from places doing bad things, I just have to stop buying the product itself. I mean let's be real… my $7 for some Israeli made cheese isn't going to make a dent in anything as far as Israeli policy, but that same $7 for some other brand of cheese at Whole Foods is going to do even less.

  27. 100% agree with you David. There is a slice of the left that is in absolute denial about the situation in Israel. People don’t know that Israel actually has Arabs in their government! So much for all that “ethnic cleansing”.

  28. Holy shit, essentially it sounds like David agrees with Tulsi Gabbard.

    Since 2005? Damn. Didn’t know that. Thanks.

  29. David, firstly you didn't address the core issue with the vote. Regardless of what you think of BDS the government has no business condemning what amounts to an act of free speech by citizens. It is not the government's place to condemn the boycott of any nation.

    Also, the point of BDS is not to shame the Israeli government but to put economic pressure on them to change their behavior as was done with South Africa during Apartheid. That it hasn't been effective at this point does not mean it never will be, how effective it becomes depends on how many people participate which requires the truth of what the Israeli government is doing to become more widely known.

    I also don't like the whataboutism of bringing up boycotting other countries. Whether or not boycotting Israel does or does not make sense stands on its own merits. It is also a non argument to say it divides the left, simply because people on the left are divided on it does not invalidate the issue in any sense.

  30. I'm too tired to watch it and digest it properly. I'll watch-listen tomorrow as I am working on my pivot tables. Good night, good ppl.

  31. Boycotts only work if the targeted country (or company) doesn't have a strong foothold in our economy. Hell, look at Chick Filet. Those boycotts have been a disaster. In regards to Israel, they have such deep ties to the United States that you are never going to organization an effective boycott. If a tactic is ineffectual, then don't use it. It only embarrasses you and hurts the cause.

  32. Free speech is free speech. I’m sorry but if I want to say something racist it’s not the governments business. I don’t; and BDS isn’t racist either. That being said… my opinions are my rights and if I decide to become a racist the government has no business in it. Lmao. Fuck off

  33. What I'm wondering is why, at this particular time, the push-back against BDS is getting so much stronger? Is it that BDS is indeed getting more effective? Or is there the fear that it could become increasingly effective the longer it lasts?

  34. Since when did the Left care about Free Speech of Dissenting Voices?

    Really can't stand the Hypocrisy.

  35. I have to mention that it's funny to get a Trump 2020 campaign ad specifically saying how Democrats are socialist and all the same 😂 I laugh every time

  36. Just because it hasnt worked so far doesnt meant it wont work ever. In a country where a substaintial number of people believe that the second coming of their Lord is linked to the enlargement of a country, it's very difficult, but certainly not impossible, to make BDS work.
    Apartheid South Africa also made quality products. Did there manufacturing skills or good economy justify the evil system?

  37. I think you made some good points about BDS, but you still didn't address the fact that condemning the movement in a federal bill is still against free speech.

    Also, what are your thoughts on the role boycotts had in the end of apartheid in South Africa? Sure, BDS would still need the support from major governments to actually put a dent on the behavior of the right wing government of Israel. But if not through BDS, what would you have regular people do to affect change in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict?

  38. I think there are 2 arguments. should America even have this vote? and why?

    secondly- BDS against businesses operating in illegal settlement areas and bds against all of Israel. both have their merits and arguments against. The one BDS movement against businesses operating in illegal settlements has a much stronger case. Certainly, it's true that, everyday ordinary Israelis who may not even support what the right-wing government has done haven't warranted a BDS campaign (i don't see how they would be affected, however)

    I think the underlying principle of refusing to financially support the Israeli government until it gives Palestinians a fair shake is a valid one

  39. It's nice of you to focus on empathy with the Palestinians and the hardships they are facing, but note that most people who criticize Israel care about the Palestinians only to the extent that they can blame Israel for their plight. Once it's not about Israel, but about the PA's human rights violations or the crimes committed by Hamas against their own people, or about the situation of the Palestinians in Lebanon and Syria, those people usually become very quiet. It is very hard to escape the conclusion that what motivates solidarity with the Palestinians is more often than not the fact that their alleged oppressors happen to be Jewish. Only Israel triggers the kind of fervor that gets people riled up to speak out for the Palestinians, and I'd argue that to the extent that someone's criticism of Israel's policies is not matched by their criticism of the authoritarianism exercised by the PA and Hamas, there is very likely a bit of antisemitic energy in the mix there.

  40. My problem with the bill has nothing to do with movements or Israel or Palestine. It has to do with the fact that the government has decided to tell us who we're forced to do business with.
    Next up is the bill preventing us from boycotting Saudi Arabia. Then the one to prevent boycotting Russia. Maybe one to prevent boycotting China.
    How much sovereignty are we willing to give up for the sake of foreign nations' interests? I agree that the BDS movement is probably not the most useful way to accomplish much of anything, but having the government step in and tell us we're not allowed to participate in the movement? That's a much, much scarier proposition. One that is now precedent.

  41. BDS doesn't work when not most of Israel's trade partners participate, but what's the solution if not BDS? Every other solution has been even tried for an even longer time and accomplished nothing. BDS worked in South Africa so why shouldn't it work in Israel? Why people don't boycott china? Because we as the west made ourselves dependent on China otherwise we could.

  42. If you are still talking about "tWo sTaTe sOlUtIoN".
    Then either your knowledge about the conflict, and the "facts of ground" that the zionist state has been busy creating, is several out-dated.
    Or you are simply gas-lighting the people, in order to buy more time for the zionist state to create more "facts of ground".

  43. David is Jewish
    David is foreign born
    David's brother is with ADL

    Judaism doesnt acknowledge borders of nation states so he wants open borders, flat out

    As an immigrant he has no lineage or commection to America. All the more reason he has no connection to our sovereignty

    ADL (his brother) would love to pass an actual bill to attack our Constitution for the sake of the foreign power that is Israel

    His diminishing it because it's non binding is like diminishing a non binding agreement authorizing slavery. It verbally supports an attack on Constitution.

    No American should listen to this biased awkward dishonest closeted foreigner who doesn't have America's best interest at heart

  44. Substantive issues with your argument (I vaporized some high CBD containing industrial hemp before typing this, sorry if its wordy):
    1) They voted against BDS, even if you actually think it wont work voting against it does what exactly? (im 6 mins in and I dont think this is being addressed, ok after watching you kinda addressed it saying it drives a wedge, I explore that point later on).

    2) So just because its not convenient (or for the most part possible) to boycott China then we shouldnt try for another country with human rights abuses? Sorry I dont think thats a very good argument. Kind of reminds me of arguments that try to show hypocrisy with people who are eco-conscious.

    3) You said we can only boycott until its inconvenient like China. While I think thats a reasonable point, we can still utilize tools RIGHT NOW that might make a difference

    4) While you might not agree with everything BDS does, sometimes we dont have to agree on every single point to accomplish some common goals. Tonight's debate had me feeling that way about Warren (who I used to be a big fan of but have become less of a fan lately), I might not agree with her on everything but we still have alot in common.

    5) Yes I think we dont have to draw the line at boycotting products if they can be used to save a life, this seems pretty straightforward so im not sure how this affects BDS? Maybe im ignorant on this point?

    6) This population of very specific Jewish people probably exists, I dont think its a sizable population. But maybe the size isnt important? I just checked and the one Jewish group I follow on this topic, "Jewish Voice For Peace" supports BDS.

    7) I agree there are some people who draw very illogical conclusions based on no evidence, but I think you are focusing on the lowest hanging fruit that criticizes people who voted against BDS. Like the argument against Ro Khanna that you relayed to us. I get it but arent there better arguments of the people criticizing the people who voted against BDS? If the reasons you gave are why Ro Khanna voted against it, then I would say my post would be much better example to give a rebuttal to.

    8) I dont think saying "it gives a cover to antisemetic people" is a good reason to vote against BDS. I believe any movement against Israel's actions are going to draw in people and some of them will be bad apples. Every movement for civil rights is going to have that problem, the fight for the rights of black people had those elements as well. For the most part those bad apples are going to be there no matter what we do as there is only 1 popular movement against Israels actions. I would agree that BDS movement should take the moral high ground and explain that they are not against Israeli people but are against the countries actions. My rebuttal would be mainly point 4. I think the Black Panthers were much more insidious than BDS BUT I think most would agree they played an important role in the civil rights movement.

    So far it seems like you are saying if we cant be perfect and 100% BDS in every situation then its not even worth trying AND we should actually respect voting against it?

  45. When I think of bds,big believe there are 2 types in the case of Israel. Type 1 being boycotting all Israel, which I agree I dont particularly see any fruit for and type 2 boycotting Israeli illegal settlements which has yielded some fruit that was covered even on secular talk discouraging businesses from setting up camp in the illegal settlements. To be honest I cant see bds being truly impactful until the us government ends Israeli support and I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

  46. You forgot to mention that whole free speech thing. Even if I don’t support BDS, I support people’s right to do it.

  47. Recall that sanctions against the South African government had no practical impact on the apartheid regime's actions at all, until the Presidency withdrew support due to the involvement of US moneyed interest. Also, something that goes against Chinese people or culture would be 'anti-Sinitic' not anti-Asian though David seemed to have a genuine confusion within himself for a second. The tactic of divesting and sanctioning has real consequences for the target, so in this regard the maneuver has 'worked' or is effective as a mechanism of contact. China does not blockade a population into an open air prison while launching drone strikes into the victim's territory, very weird that David chooses this as 'the hill to die on'.

  48. David is against the idea of BDS (Boycott, Divest, SANCTION) but doesn’t champion that same belief when the U.S. decides to sanction countries that don’t bend the knee.

    It’s hypocritical and I just can’t take him serious on this topic cause the bias is clearly there😂🤷‍♂️

  49. As long as the bill doesn't go after free speech with the force of law, I'm fine. I don't really care about isreal, I care about the first amendment. "condemning" a boycott is fine. Outlawing a boycott is not fine.

  50. The right to free speech obviously trumps all other claims here- that is essentially the nature of free speech. And the comparison to China is faulty, as we offer massive support to Israel and had the prime minister of Israel address our Congress. Without explicit support from the US, Israel would have to change. Obama tried something approaching "soft" pressure on Israel- how did that go?

  51. It doesn't matter if the BDS movement works or not, the main issue here is that this resolution tells American citizens that they shouldn't use their First Amendment rights against a foreign country with a horrible record on civil rights. Military interventions have more supporters than the BDS movement in Congress… Now that's absurd!

  52. Wait, I thought the BDS movement is against companies who conduct business in the illegal settlement areas, including international corporations like Motorola, Siemens and Volvo? Not just any and all Israeli companies?

    Agree with it or not, you shouldn't condemn and/or stop others in participating in BDS. It's their 1st amendment right to do so. I mean, would you like it if Trump supporters have the ability to stop you from boycotting Trump's and his supporters' businesses?

  53. I appreciate that you are being honest. But your argument isn't at all convincing and doesn't address the actual vote. Why should congress vote to condemn my protest? Vote to condemn anti-antisemitism, sure, but don't vote to condemn my 1st amendment rights.

    BDS worked in South Africa; are you saying that South Africa didn't produce any products that were used/bought by those people/nations during BDS?

    Based on what you said here, I don't believe you care much at all about the Palestinians and Israeli Arabs/non Jews/Jewish minority groups. It seems, based on your purchasing habits, that you are actively supporting Israel and that your verbal condemnations are a hollow attempt to keep your audience, many of whom would abandon you if you said you support the neo-Nazi Israeli government (I say neo-Nazi because it's the same ideology only with regard to Jewish Europeans rather than Aryans), or more likely, just aren't bothered by their supremacist ideology. Stop giving lip service to human rights and start actually believing in them. I understand how it might be hard for someone who is culturally Jewish to boycott Israel, but you could at least make some minor effort, maybe just one or two products…

    Even if it won't work to accomplish our policy goals (stopping land theft, human rights abuses, internment, etc…), that's not a good reason not to do it. There would still be a moral principal behind it.

    Anti-semites were boycotting Israel long before 2005, they may say they are part of the BDS movement but that is irrelevant. They will boycott before and after the larger BDS movement exists.

  54. It doesn't matter if you think BDS doesn't work.

    The fact is there is a free speech issue, the same free speech issues you obsess over regarding offensive cartoons.

    It's not about supporting BDS or how effective it is. It's about not making BDS supporters pariahs.

  55. hey David, I'm a fan of yours from Israel, really hope this gets to you. the BDS movement while unsuccessful as you said is unquestionably legitimate. it is a non violent way of protest which seeks to hold Israel accountable, after this was never done thanks to the US vetoing any significant security council decision regarding Israel. from what I understand the goal is to pressure governments to boycott and sanction (not only consumers), similarly to what worked in South Africa. that said, it is a better way of action to boycott only the settlement's produce and not the entirety of Israel to impact the criminals and human rights violators directly.

  56. I'm sorry, but this is just a repulsive response. The second David has any skin in any game he suddenly turns into Ben Shapiro, and every point he makes is insubstantial nonsense. 'But it's not working', is not a fucking point, it's your argument.

    Half the points he makes are 'Israeli is deathly afraid of it and fighting tooth and nail to remove BDS'. That's not proof it's not working, that's proof it IS working. Jesus.

    What the hell does 'cover for antisemites' mean? If antisemites are boycotting Israel, I think better of them, because they're doing something constructive for once.

  57. lmao Right before the DP video there's a commercial for a new Israeli television series making fun of the entire situation. So much for BDS.

  58. David, let’s talk about the substance of what you say. You say the policy hasn’t changed? Has American anti war policy changed since 1945? That is not a smart comment. These are the early stages to topple Israel’s murderous policies backed by the biggest power in the world- the US. This is a non aggressive tool. Aggressive tactics haven’t worked. What should they do. Sit there and be murdered? Bandages and drugs. Seriously. Weak and pathetic. You think people can’t buy other cheese? You are being a typical moderate on this issue. Why does it have to be one or the other I.e Jewish groups as opposed to bds. Why not both. Let’s discuss.

  59. He uses the tired "oh what about other countries" red herring…. Notice david dosent talk about the merits of the bill

  60. Okay here is why I am against the Anti-BDS bill and why I find it dangerous. While the house bill does effectively nothing in the way of legislative consequence there are States which in order to get a contract or work for the state a person must sign an agreement to not protest against Israel or join any BDS activity. This is essentially making people give up the right to peacefully protest against the Israeli Government in order to be able to work for the state or get a contract from the state. This is what I thought Ilhan Omar's statement about people being required to basically sign a pledge to support the Israeli government was about. I do not know if BDS is or is not effective but I feel that by saying we should not support that form of protest is interfering in the right of citizens to protest in a peaceful manner as we see fit.

  61. I hope BDS keeps doing what it's doing and people like Linda Sarsour and Rep. Omar keep saying dog whistle anti-semitic things, it just puts more pressure on Hamas and Palestian governemnt. The more they attack Israel the harder Israel will fight back. A bunch of millenial hipsters and YouTube slacktivists aren't making any positive difference. If you think Jews control the world or some other conspiracy theory you're just trash.

  62. This is a (probably too) long attempt to seriously adress this clip, but I feel the need to. Let's summarize Davids points:

    1. BDS isn't working, let's try another thing to hold israeli governments accountable.

    2. Anti-semites can use BDS for cover.

    3. Whataboutism (China etc.)

    4. Hypocrisy : Boycotting Israel in words while buying/using products for various reasons.

    My reply:

    1. This is clearly the most important point David is making and should not be brushed off lightly. Because if you like me think that BDS is only a tactic to reach a goal and not a goal in itself, you have to reasonably assume BDS has a higher chance to be working towards achieving palestinian wins than not. And while I agree that BDS has not been shown to forward progress for palestinian political and human rights so far, its equivalent didn't for South Africa for decades either. Not until the mid-eighties when the popular anti-apartheid campaigns around the world and particularly in the United States found momentum inside the government itself. Part of the goal is to find just that kind of momentum. And many south-africans (for example International Law Professor John Dugard, former UN special rapporteur for occupied palestinian territories) have said that the outside economic and cultural pressure was an important part in making white south african elites finally pursuing a different path. This despite the relative modest economic impact BDS actually had.

    BDS should of course not be the only path taken. Equally important is electing and pushing officials willing to transform policies towards this conflict and working with and supporting organizations that can be constructive towards ending the oppression of palestinians. On this David claims that fighting for BDS could be counterproductive for that dialogue. I am not convinced at all. BDS importance as of right now is like David says still not that considerable, but the israeli public has if anything moved further to the intransigent right the last 15 years. Even the so-called zionist left. Take for example the only zionist party anywhere near the international position: Meretz. Today it has forged a coalition with Ehud Baraks new party, which is anything but peaceniks.

    2. Anti-Semites can and will use anything in its way to ratch up hatred and disgust for jews. Should this fact stop anti-racists/pro-human/political rights individuals and groups from pursuing a path we feel could work? I would say no, unless the probable effects of pursuing them are more negative than the perceived benefits. I don't find much evidence that this is the case here. But all pro-BDS groups and individuals should point out that as much possible justice for all is the goal with this tactic, no matter religion or ethnicity.

    3. This harks back to what I said in point 1. BDS is a tactic towards a goal. That's why I come to a different conclusion on China. Unlike for Palestine there's not much reports coming out that such a tactic has considerable support among chinese. It's also a much larger economic, military, popular and territorial power which makes BDS extremely difficult to work. But even if the two previous conditions were met, one has to be very cautious when using this tactic against a country where large swaths of the population are still very poor. Here Israel is different. It is also different in that it actually is more sensitive to what european and especially North American countries perceive Israel to be, as Israel wants to belong to western civilizations.

    4. In this point Dave seems to make the absolutist case: If you don't go full in for BDS you're a hypocrite and should therefore not adopt it. This makes no sense to me. It's not clear that a tactic must be 100 % effective for it to work. If one is less judgmental a tactic could still work and it could also be off-set with more people half-heartedly joining in. I'm interested in results, not in purity.

  63. I have to disagree with your opinion on the BDS movement. It is not an attempt to 'punish Israel', but an international protest to raise awareness of Israeli violations of international law,.

    Israeli lobbyists have fought against this protest movement by spinning is as "antisemitic" and pushing for state and nationals laws that violate violate 1st amendment rights.

  64. 🙄 Boycotts work whether you think The Left only do it when convenient or not. Americans have been boycotting since before there was a America. The colonies boycott of British goods did a lot to stop their repeated taxation.
    You just like to take any opportunity to stick it to the left, self proclaimed self censorship notwithstanding.

  65. My thoughts – First off, why bother with the vote at all if BDS is ineffective? It's obviously a ploy by certain parties to create ammunition with which to attack progressives or anyone who voted against it. I would have liked it if some progressives spoke out about this, but everyone, including Tulsi, remained silent hoping it would go unnoticed. Secondly, with all due respect David, I think you're misinformed if you believe that removing the "right wing" netenyahu government will go a long way to a solution. I say this because during the Clinton years in the late 90s, Ehud Barack(a left leaning moderate) was prime minister of Israel, and all the while he was negotiating a supposed solution for the israeli/paledstinian conflict, Israel continued to bulldoze homes and illegally expand their settlements. Then as usual, when the Palestinians fought back as anyone seeing their homes stolen would, Israel said"See, they just want us out and don't want a solution", talks crumbled, and next thing you knew, Ariel Sharon took over, who was worse even than Netenyahu. So, a lot more than a change of government needs to happen. The US needs to stop sending Israel Billions of taxpayer $ every year so they can keep the palestinians down. We need to get our noses out of the fray and let them work it out without our interference.

  66. Israel is a fascist government. It's engaging in colonialism and ethnic cleansing againsr Palestinians and commonly murders people they claim as citizens

    Any action taken against them is good

  67. Everyone saying that you are aloud to disagree with BDS without having the government condemning it is missing the bigger picture imo. If you do the research you will find that BDS has ties to terrorist organizations such as Hamas and really is an organization rooted in anti-semitism. There’s a great article from the New York Times recently about this.

  68. David, as a South African I would be interested to know your opinion on the boycott of the former Apartheid regime?

  69. Fallacy #1: BDS hasn't yet resulted in the Israeli government changing its policies towards the Palestinians and so it never will.

    This is a flawed argument for a couple of reasons.

    1) While BDS was concieved as a concept 15 years ago, it's only gained traction in the past 5 years. I'm sure Google search data can demonstrate general awareness of it, and I'm sure most of your viewers have only come to learn about it in the past 5-7 years. The fact that it's part of US government lexicon now as opposed to 15 years ago demonstrates that it only recently caught on as a mainstream movement. For BDS to become effective, it needed to be a mainstream movement. As such it is a young movement and to criticize it is like criticizing a diet and workout plan only 3 days into practicing it because you aren't seeing enough results.

    2) BDS becomes more effective as a political tool to pressure governments the larger it grows, but its growth has been targeted by governments and lobbyists. Western governments are looking to criminalize BDS. Corporations have made BDS against their code of ethics (while also forbidding trade with Iran). So BDS is actively being made less able to be practiced and you're attempting to criticize its effectiveness, it's like criticizing Mike Tyson if he had to fight with one arm tied. Apply critical thinking here and ask yourself why the Israeli lobby have been pushing Western nations to ban BDS if it weren't effective. Obviously they see it as being more and more effective as it grows. You can't claim it's ineffective when you have only seen it practiced to a fraction of its potential.

    3) Boycotts never achieve their goals until they do. Your criticism could equally apply to the boycott of South Africa up until the week everything changed. As a tool for political pressure, they are designed to take a nation to a breaking point. As you hinted, Israel is feeling the effects of this and it's only a matter of time before they break, which is exactly why they need governments to ban BDS.

    I should go to sleep and I'm typing this on my phone which is a pain so I'll leave it at the first one. If you are interested in hearing my other fallacy breakdowns let me know. I need to know if you're a good faith actor before investing any more time. No offense, it's just a pragmatic approach to internet discussions.

  70. I don't understand why we continue to have any kind of contact with Israel in the first place, but let me clear, I also do not give one fuck about Palestine or any other country for that matter. We are not the damn world police. If it has to do with trade then fine, lets trade, but giving other countries money for anything other than some sort of service or good just doesn't make sense to me. IMO it is more harmful to send "aid" to an extremely poor country than it is to just let them die. All you do it extend their suffering. If we truly want to help a poor country then we should annex it or let it die.

  71. Antizionism and Zionist imperialism in the region has nothing to do with Antisemitism. This BDS thing is nothing more then a fig leave and excuse, for liberals and progressives for having done basically nothing for the Palestinian people who have suffered now so many years under Israeli oppression. And with Kushner Inc at the withe house I do not expect much to happen for the foreseeable future, other then that Israel Bolton and Pompeo might draw the US into a war against Iran the could result in W III. The Kushner family is building homes for settlers and the two families Kushner and Netanjahu) are befriended just as the Bushs and the Bin Ladens where. Do you really believe the world would be unable to rule Israel in, if they really wanted. And BTW who killed Arafat and Rabin, who where very close to bring peace to the region? Who benefits from the ongoing conflict? And who is selling all the weapons to Israel and where does the money come from. I am not an Illuminati theorist believing the Rothschilds hoare holding the world in a conspiracy , believing in the long existing hoax about the so called ""scrolls of the elders of Zion", which was faktchecked and discarded more then a hundred years ago and in all this time happened to fuel some actual deadly Antisemtism , like in Nazi Germany. But still if you see al the facts with an open eye and dont hide behind political hypocrisy, there is without an doubt someone who benefits from the ongoing deadly conflict and somebody so powerful and rich, that this person or group doenst only shy away from murder as in the case if Arafat and Sadat, but even to rage even more terrible wars among the plagued countries of the region. One thing playing a role is greed and Oil and American Imperialism but who else benefits directly from this madness? But while I think it would be really worth it to try to investigate this whole situation deeper I think if someone does, he wouldn't survive it for long or finishing in Gitmo.

  72. I'm against BDS because it hurts regular people. People are not thinking clearly this could harm Israeli businesses that employ Palestinians. What I don't like is the US government being pushed around by AIPAC to ignore Palestinians rights. Even though the resolution is nonbinding it shouldn't have even been presented.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Post comment