New Brunswick drops carbon tax legal challenge | Power & Politics



this is a first opportunity this country's ever seen in recent memory that from coast to coast from the east to the west we have like-minded premiers this is a table of mutual interests on how we can continue to to create wealth in in the communities that we represent none of us nor do our citizens appreciate a message that it's either Ottawa's way or the highway the theme uniting the pregame huddle you saw there appears to be in large part the carbon tax conservative premiers from Alberta New Brunswick Saskatchewan and the Northwest Territories gathered in Calgary today United in their opposition to the federal government's price on carbon they say the feds are infringing on their jurisdiction Ontario and Saskatchewan recently lost their court challenges on that argument though Saskatchewan plans to appeal its case to the Supreme Court new brunswick premier Blaine Higgs was pursuing a legal challenge – so is that still the case given the recent losses Blaine Higgs as the premier of New Brunswick he joins us now from Calgary hi premier great to see you again I used to be here actually good afternoon you're about to sit down with premiers from across the country in Saskatoon so I'm wondering what the point of this smaller meeting was was it just optics are you trying to send a message to Ottawa well you know it was really about the national unity and the idea if we have some very distinct common interests across their country and having six like-minded you know premiers get together and discuss you know the concerns that are real and and and to kind of go to the coffe medium with a plan to to have some concrete decisions made often these these meetings have a communique written before they advance and before the event and you know there doesn't say much so so we want a little more strategic action a little more straight talk and a plan because we're concerned about the economic future of our country does it set up though a divisive sort of environment between those who you call like-minded and in your fellow premiers at this this meeting in Calgary used the same term often in the press conference today does it set up sort of a an us-versus-them environment those who you consider like-minded and those who you don't well you know I guess it certainly could be seen as that I understand that but I think it's it's kind of a first for Canadian politics in many ways that that we'd see six provinces you know from coast to coast here and and I said from the beginning and in in New Brunswick I feel myself like a stranded asset and and I feel you know very lying now right from through Ontario and and right through to to through Alberta through D Alberta and and I'm hopeful that we can gain the same sort of level of concerns and and and the realization that that our country in in in Dean is in trouble economically but we have major challenges that we have to face together so having voices that are kind of going in with with some of the topics that need to be discussed and need to be resolved and I think is going to be helpful but if unity and and productive in this upcoming meeting is the priority how does this this sort of block of like-minded premiers advance that how does it does it not just set up sort of something that that will produce the opposite well we're hopeful that that won't be the case because I think we come in with at least you know six that have have a strategic vision about you know utilizing what we have going forward in their natural resources to help to innovate and grow our economy and let our let our energy and and resources fund innovation you know we know about this election coming up it's going to be a green washing in many ways where we see whether you're either for the for a carbon tax and if you're not you're you're against climate change and and we're saying no no we're we're totally committed to reducing emissions we're totally committed to our targets in fact in New Brunswick we're twenty percent of our thirty percent target now and that's a twenty thirty target and we can exceed that easily without a carbon tax so we want to get the message clearly out there that you know you don't have to tax people more we don't have to open up a whole new revenue taxation to fund a government abuse we can we can actually use what we have while we're using it to fund the next innovation in the in the future generation what do you mean by government abuse I mean that once a new tax revenue stream is opened up then governments will consistently find a way to spend it and in many ways spend it strategically to secure a continued vote and and that's what we see happening right here except spects are the the federal government is actually rebating that money in your province the rebate is supposed to be up to five hundred and eighty three dollars in 2022 while the amount of money spent or the the revenue accrued is going to be five hundred and a straight four hundred and seventy dollars by 2022 in your province yes by 2022 and that's not taking into account I mean that's that's what the extent is now saying that that's not the full amount and and at this point we've put forward a carbon plan that takes into account no put based pricing model and it's it hasn't been accepted so what about the impacts and the data and the downstream costs of the impacts on their industry or the move of our private sector investment which out here in the West has exceeded a hundred billion dollars over the last couple years alone or a province like New Brunswick that has a 90 percent of our trade is is to the to the foreign trade mostly to the US and and they're not subject to any of this so what does that say about our ability to compete and have jobs for the future do you think though that the carbon tax is solely responsible for example to the capital flight that you're pointing to in the oil patch I mean the price of oil had a lot to do with that as well well the reason that we don't see our Alberta oil flowing from coast to coast and in US and us being able to use it in their refineries in the East Coast or being exported is simply because of changing rules and regulation out of the federal government I mean that is that is the reason how do we know that because I spent over thirty years in the industry I know that it's a long term investment and volatility up and down has been historic forever so so for anyone to to say that they walked away because of a change in usage it will happen over time and it'll happen like the Kodak you know the film industry when when when the digital photography came along film industry was out overnight we will have innovation gradually phase out fueled whether it be gas or oil but let's not you know cut ourselves off shot the lights out and and wander around the dark here hoping for the best in the meantime let's utilize what we have let's spend our money like Norway has to invest in new technology and build our future not just cut it off at the nice and and and and and try to survive you're not alone in your opposition to to the carbon tax obviously as you know as you know from from your meetings in in Calgary there are a number of provinces that launched legal challenges recently Ontario and Saskatchewan both lost their initial challenges we know for example Saskatchewan will appeal that to the Supreme Court are you going to continue with your legal challenge we will continue as intervenors in the in the process but what we are going to do is is to have our Auditor General's are actually our attorney general's office throughout their country to get together and talk about next steps because what this is about is not whether the the carbon tax should be imposed or not it's about the the federal jurisdiction and the right for them to impose this on to provinces and what's interesting is Quebec just today have put forward their own challenge you know suggesting that the federal government doesn't have jurisdiction over provincial matters so they'll be intervenors as well yes exactly so so the whole question isn't about just the carbon tax it's about the federal government imposing on provinces regardless if they're meeting their emission targets or not and after all what is this all about it's about cleaner greener new Brown Eric New Brunswick Canada and it's about meeting emission standards so let's let us focus on the targets not focus on a revenue stream for politicians to just take advantage do courts though and I and I take your point that there are appeals under the one appeal at least underway two courts have ruled that the federal government does in fact have jurisdiction is it my understanding that you're not going to proceed with your own legal challenge just seek intervener status because of that that and the fact that we decided collectively that we would ask for our attorney general's office to review our standings review the case and decide what path we should jointly go forward to let's say challenge the federal government's of jurisdiction in this area so that are those are the next steps so right now I won't be moving forward separately to have another court challenge in the province but I will be working with Saskatchewan in their provincial in their Supreme Court challenge and and we are going to do through the AG's office an understanding of what are our next steps to challenge the federal is the fact though that you're not pursuing your own legal challenge and admission that the federal government according to at least those two courts does have jurisdiction here well I think you know we the rulings although obviously we're not happy with them they make a statement of their own so why would I at this point without being able to present a different argument it wouldn't make sense for me to use taxpayer dollars to go and present the same case isn't Knowles doing pardon isn't that what the appeal in Saskatchewan is doing well but that's going to the Supreme Court so that's challenging the very decision on its own right it hasn't none of it's gone to the Supreme Court yet yeah just this one from Saskatchewan well it correctly right okay I'll leave it there thank you so much premier Hague's appreciate your time today you're very welcome thank you veggie we invited a number of priests of others couldn't make it for scheduling reasons but where I'll be meeting up tonight in Saskatoon at the Council of the Federation this was just a brief and fairly informal get-together of some of them some like-minded premiers to talk about jobs growth and prosperity but we we hope that we'll be able to to have fruitful discussions with all of our colleagues starting tonight under premier Moe's chairmanship we were focused on people who support Responsible resource development pipelines corridors and are concerned about the carbon tax and that's the vast majority of premiers that was Alberta premier Jason Kenney explaining why a pre meeting of some premiers was necessary today v premiers had an informal meeting this morning in Calgary they included Kenney Ontario Premier Doug Ford Saskatchewan Scott Modi Brunswick's Blaine Higgs and premier Bob McLeod of the Northwest Territories but the full Council of the Federation as you heard premier Kenney say there is set to begin its meeting tonight in Saskatoon so what was the point of the pre meeting and why does it what does it rather indicate about the health of the Federation time for the power panel in Toronto Brad Lavigne of council public affairs Yela and James former Quebec Liberal cabinet minister is with us from Montreal and here with me in studio former director of policy to Stephen Harper Rachel Curran now is Harper and associates hi everybody Rachel I'll start with you and I'll post sort of the similar question has edited to New Brunswick premier Blaine Higgs this idea and they kept using the term like-minded where like-minded premiers what does that say for the full Council of the Federation does it become sort of an us-versus-them thing and is that counter-productive no I don't think so I mean premier Kenny has been saying for three years that he wants to build a coalition in support of particular economic priorities and he listed off some of them right resource development energy corridors internal trade internal labor mobility like these are all really important topics that will advance hopefully our shared prosperity across the country and so premier Kenny has been indicating he wants to take a lead on this he wants to put together a coalition of premiers who are supportive of that agenda and I think it's by and large the the majority of premiers as a provincial level now and so he's following through on that commitment so you see him sort of putting today together this group that is going to have an economic agenda that will hopefully benefit the country real urghhh does it is it sort of though setting them up to be at odds with Ottawa I mean it's yes they say all that but they're also really really hard but not Ottawa well on the Commission's like the carbon tax sure I think they have a whole list of other things that they want to get accomplished I don't think there's going to be a lot of you know back and forth with us I don't think they want to waste the time on that to be honest these kinds of things are the sorts of things that a federal government and a prime minister should be taking a leadership position on we haven't seen that from the current federal government in fact in my view it's been historically divisive and so we see their premiers the provincial premiers getting together and taking the lead and I think that's a great thing do you think Yolanda it's historically divisive and if it is is that all on the premiers or is it all on the feds or a mix of both in that in the Council of Federation I think it's just important to remember contrary to the meetings initiated by Ottawa the Council of Federation in Shahadah had been really incredible putting that together is an opportunity for premiers and for different provincial jurisdiction governments to discuss sometimes @oz and crew and create alliances but I think that discussion will obviously take place but I don't think that we can talk about today's meeting without bringing up the context of the federal election without bringing up the context of yes a carbon tax and these like-minded that also happened to be conservative premiers wanting to to make a statement I think and also make sure that the federal government and the federal Liberal government is well aware as they already are surely that that they plan to be a force to be reckoned with as we enter the pre-electoral stage of this so yes it is as Rachel mentioned there will be these alliances and discussions with respect to the economic coalition that he wants to build but let's also be frank about the fact that that's not all that this pre council Federation meeting is about and the those that are not there are absent for a reason whether it be the Premier of Quebec or even Andrew Shearer who also is not in the in the portrait premier about a premier but but considering we're talking about conservatives here this could have been an opportunity considering every politician and the son it seems like for good reason we'll want to be present around the Stampede activities and so much of this Brad is about about the carbon tax as your lawn touched on the Quebec I just want to play a clip from Scott Moe the premier of Saskatchewan talking about how Quebec today confirmed that they would be seeking intervener status in the provinces appeal to the Supreme Court let's take a listen then Brad I'll get you to weigh in we had a decision a split decision in the province of Saskatchewan recently we are taking that forward we're taking that forward to the Supreme Court of Canada we saw an intervention announcement here this morning in Quebec also believes this is an infringement in provincial jurisdiction of which we also believe the federal government is in an area that isn't theirs to ultimately operate it's interesting Brad because that rhetoric quebec's rhetoric Blaine Hague so we had earlier on the show he's dropping the provinces own legal challenges but this challenge rather but he keeps the key they all keep talking about jurisdiction as being the big issue what do you what do you think of where this debate is at politically yeah well III think that obviously the lead-up to the federal election is a big part of all this you know it is interesting that Quebec has its own price on carbon yet it yet it yet it's jumping into the fray at this time I don't know if if if if there's that's going to make more compelling the case the case here but but in terms of the I think I think that's right I think the carbon tax is a big part of it because I think the Conservative Party of Canada want to the carbon tax to be high up on people's ballot box questions whether or not that's going to be successful or not I think one of the big challenges that they have and you could see this at Stampede this past weekend is that there is no photo at least that I saw from anybody's Twitter feed with a photo of premier Doug Ford's from Ontario and Andrew Shearer you know right now what we have is you know the election just a mere months away we know that Doug Ford in the province of Ontario is bringing down Andrew sheers numbers so people don't want to you know it's it's it's pretty easy for mr. Kenney and and and in premier mo to have a photo with with Doug Ford but I didn't see Andrew Shearer doing that that's that's that's very interesting but this whole weekend leading up to the Saskatoon council the Federation is about another counter another place for the opposition the opposition to the Trudeau government in a particular the vehicle through which the carbon tax fight will be will be launched and it's gonna be very curious Andrew shares got to be careful to not get overshadowed we're talking more about premiers of provinces than we are about the leader of the Official Opposition just mere months away from the federal election he should be somewhat concerned about being overshadowed Rachel do you think that's that's true should should Mr Shearer be concerned about I guess what Brad calls overshadowing or I mean it is true that he wasn't seen he was seeming premiered County he wasn't seen as premier forward he did today and now it's basically calling on the federal government to scrap the clean fuel standard that was ever sort of a big announcement from from the Conservatives today but but to to Brad's point point is is he at risk of being overshadowed by the rhetoric coming from this alliance over the carbon tax no not at all Andrew shares been front and center at the Calgary Stampede he was just at an event in Etobicoke where a premier Ford was attending also here it's what I think I think Brad's trying to deflect from the fact that nowhere in this picture has Chuck meets thing been seeing so why isn't he at the Calgary Stampede not going we every part is your Chris Frantz to get confirmed interesting so look I think if you're running to be the national leader you've got to show up in an event like that even Elizabeth May who's not going to get any votes in Calgary probably no votes at all and Alberta is showing up at the Calgary Stampede and like planting her flag so I think it's a real problem that the leader of the NDP is not there and why is he not there maybe Brad can tell us that Brad I'll get you to weigh in and then Elan well you'd have to you'd have to why don't you call wait till one of you ask mr. Shaw well you ask you about just the the political implications of him of mr. Singh not going and then I'll find exactly what they say I'm sure I mean I'm sure they don't know so I merely I'm merely gonna mean what we knew on the power panel all the time he won't be heading to Calgary he had events in the rioting last week and is on a flight to Toronto today for unmovable events in Ontario sure okay well then you're gonna go where you think you're going to be picking up support and obviously with the decision that the federal New Democratic Party has taken on the position of the pipeline I mean take a look at the level of support for the pipeline of the province of Alberta it is sky high and it is its height it is high in other places so you know I don't think it's a big mystery that mister you know that Jimmy Singh has chosen to spend time outside of that you go where the next tier of voters are you don't go where you've taken a principled stand and at the same time I don't see mr. shear in places that you're gonna see mr. singing so that's what all the three that the main the four major parties in the House of Commons right now are gonna be going after where is that next tier of voter where can I go and get some support and you go where the support might be it's like there's an election going on final word do you Yolande no I was only I guess we won't have time but I'm only coming back to the strategy to change the discussion and the interview premier King was talking about the importance of or emphasizing the whole jurisdiction argument as opposed to really focusing on the anti carbon more policy aspect to it there's a reason for that and that's really because the Quebec government and and and maybe others I believe P I hasn't hasn't really been very specific as to why there intravenous as and they have a strong green presence in their province as well is that jurisdiction obviously in a place like Quebec is is very supported by people wanting to make sure that the government is autonomous in the defense of jurisdiction but if France will ago or any premier is pretty BEC has perceived as being an t carbon tax or an T policy with respect to getting down our emissions that would be very negative for him in the province so as much as he is intervening in the in the legal proceedings I would not expect to see Frost while ago flipping a flat pancakes in order to reiterate or state that alliance hi I'm Vashti Capello's host of power in politics see more of our show by subscribing to the CBC news channel or click the link for another video thanks for watching

Maurice Vega

22 Responses

  1. Here's the deal to all you "NEW" Canadians if you do not understand Canadian Politics I suggest you take a course at your local college or post secondary ed programs, that's if you ever graduated from high school, not that there is anything wrong with that, but hopefully if you don't speak French or English at least you understand it. The purpose of this post is so you are properly informed the next time you vote in my country.

  2. Unfortunately, even Scheer is committed to the UN Paris Climate Accord. Thus, he too is putting a price on carbon and will replace the carbon tax with another tax, which we consumers will end up paying. Only Maxime Bernier and the People's Party of Canada are truly committed to scrapping the carbon tax altogether. Compare the policies of all the parties at www.compareppc.ca

  3. Maxime Bernier is in Calgary. Why isn't this panel talking about Mr. Bernier and the People's Party of Canada? I will be voting for Maxime Bernier and the People's Party of Canada this October because he listens to Canadians and cares about Canada. I would really appreciate it if CBC would be inclusive of all the politicians and political parties involved in this upcoming federal election when they speak about it. Thank You for your courtesy.

  4. Read about the Forth Industrial Revolution and get some needed Education!
    Tipping Cows is a not a Job of the future.
    Ever read/heard about “Off grid living”?
    Your House/abode will generate electricity, your Car is a storage battery. Need parts for anything, just print it on your 3D printer.
    Powercut, no problem, just switch to stored energy.
    Do some research and stop wasting the matter between your Ears.

  5. Should we trust Higgs? Thirty plus years as an oil executive. Oil's Deep State; How the Petroleum Industry Undermines Democracy and Stops Action on Global Warming – in Alberta, and in Ottawa, by Kevin Taft.

  6. Conservative Province leaders, a Collection of “Atrophied Brain Cells”.
    D. Ford is doing it to Ontario, but getting “Booed” at Every Appearance.
    Now taking a long Vacation to stay out of the Public Eye Sight.

  7. Denialism: How Irrational Thinking Hinders Scientific Progress, Harms the Planet, and Threatens Our Lives by Michael Specter

  8. Can you just imagine how this country will look if the Liberals get back in power. Almost 50% of the provinces detest their policies.

  9. Man.. Why are all these Canadians so CHUNKY ?
    Guess these lumberjacks only understand the concept of cutting down – Trees. Not Calories ?

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