LGBTQ+ Conservatives and Progressives Debate Identity Politics and the 2020 Election (Part 2/2)



one of the reasons I walked away from the Democratic Party liberalism is I'm so fed up with identity politics I am so fed up with political correctness I am so fed up with all ability and everyone here has already said it's lack of policy all identity heir Pete has been mentioned mayor Pete is gay he's been on the cover of magazines with his husband there's having somebody who's gay running right now does that make you want to vote for him mm-hmm I think you should vote on policy yeah I get asked that question all the time it's great to have a gay candidate be great table is being Kennedy or a trans candidate I'm looking at the policy everything else is peripheral I could not care less I mean the fact that he is gay doesn't I think there's such division in the LGBTQ or queer and trans whatever-you-call-it community between gay and trans trans and sis that doesn't mean he has my back as a trans person it doesn't mean that he will have trans affirming policy and supported those most marginalized in the trans community it means nothing to me that he is a gay person because he's also sis and he's also white and he's holding all of those identities and experiences at the same time so I would love to see some firm policy proposals that include trans people and non-binary people we haven't even talked about that yet but I haven't seen that yet I don't know why I'm not more excited about him than I am there's something missing I'm surprised that everybody is so anti Pete I mean I think I know a lot of sort of Pete curious conservatives is that I think you know I think he's very progressive but he's totally moderate and I think even just listening to us I mean everybody's so angry all the time to have somebody who is somewhat aspirational and who is trying to make a pitch for something something better and more they you know something more uniting like why is that so terrible I think it's I think it's nice but one of the reasons I walked away from the Democratic Party in liberalism is I'm so fed up with identity politics I am so fed up with political correctness I am so fed up with all of it in every as already said its lack of policy all identity and that's what he is I mean he's just a gay man with no ideas okay I hate when a lot of conservative folks well not even just conservative folks it's usually just white men across the aisle talk about I knew that was coming because like all identity politics right like you all have been moving through the world with your lens as a white man privileged in many different ways and therefore politics I black college I have never said that I'm not privileged I think we all have the capacity right so that's exactly what we're talking about right I also don't have this privilege and I don't have your privileges with me so like but yet matter you got no more life you don't know my experiences you're basic you're making an assumption about my life and my extreme not using for my stuff right my sexual orientation I know nor we know why not remedy is real never supposed to judge by the content of her character and not by the police I would love to stick to the Merapi question Bonnie I think having him out there and being visible is fantastic for for the community I have a nephew a 12 year old nephew who is a little gay boy and for him to be able to see that there is a gay man who is running for president is fantastic that's meaningful to you it's meaningful to have him there okay I don't I'd rather have a beer with him than vote for him Missy seems like you want to lean in and talk to him some more you know and his fabulous theater loving husband they sound great but okay I don't necessarily think that he's ready to run the country all right all right um so one thing that Jaime brought up was was the terms non-binary and GNC gender non-conforming how do you guys how does everybody here feel about the terms GNC gender non-conforming and non-binary and and the fact that it often falls under the umbrella of LGBTQ does anybody have any thoughts on that sure um so identify as non-binary and trans at the same time I believe non-binary is under the trans umbrella and not binary for me means that I don't identify as a man or a woman I'm neither I am both I am beyond and that has nothing to do with my body my body does not inform my gender I completely reject how non-binary people specifically have injected themselves into the trans label because at the end of the day I'm sure you're an amazing person you and I have wildly different experiences I am a transsexual there is a medical basis for that there's a scientific basis for that and for non-binary it's really not the case I think that non-binary is more of a political term than anything else which is why I've never met a non-binary Republican I'm very libertarian and it's it's clearly an invention of the left in general I also hate how non-binary people often because they tend to be the loudest politically they take over trans conversations I often see non-binary people in the media and on YouTube and on social media deciding what is right for trans people and transsexuals and I hate it because oftentimes it's not in alignment with most trans people I've actually met in my life so do you feel erased because of the term no no one can erase me like I'm I'm here you know what I mean but I mean in terms of them taking over the conversation oftentimes yes I think a lot of the reasons why conservatives and people who are not in the LGBTQ community have a hard time understanding trans people it often goes down to these talking points that were invented by non-binary people and people who are not trans who their lived experience could not be any more different than mine and so if it comes down to conversations about trans people I just wish actual transsexuals were having them and oftentimes it's activists who are non-binary I don't understand your argument that there's too much division that we don't have shared life experiences because among trans people among binary trans people who may go through medical tradition transition there is so much variance you are not a trans woman of color you are not a poor trans woman you have different experiences as a trans person that we need to talk about we cannot parse out at the exact same time to have this conversation yeah everything's nuanced but at the end of the day the a very fine line between someone who's a transsexual and grows up with gender dysphoria grows up saving up that money to get the confirmation surgery as they need going through coming out going through the hardships that specifically transsexuals face it is such a different life than someone who you don't know be my life I'm not saying that but what I'm but a lot of fighting people do not you can say you do and that's fine I completely believe you but a lot of them do not a lot of people a lot of non-binary people are the people who argued that you don't need gender dysphoria to be trans and to me that makes absolutely no sense because if you don't have that misalignment in your brain and misalignment in your body and within who you are then transmitting and I've never made that argument I my my support of the trans community always comes at me saying that they're their voices is important and I'm listening majority of the time I don't think the importance of a la ship is just to be in the listen mo and then I use my privilege where necessary if if they say that I need to because I know that I know I'm non-binary I know them gender expensive but I know how I present at the same time but um but but you also made a point that you said that you don't understand how non-binary people are making decisions on behalf of transgender people I think the number one you did kind of erase Jamie's when they said that they are non-binary and trans so let's start there and I think that also we we can we can say that about the whole Republican Party where we have majority white cisgender men making decisions on behalf of everyone do you have thoughts on this um I I don't identify as non-binary I can't speak to that lived experience but there are so many non-binary people that I know who identify that way who fit so so much of the gender spectrum if you will I know very feminine folks and very masculine folks folks were assigned female at birth so folks who are assigned male at birth some people have had hormones but no surgeries and some have had surgeries and no hormones and they're I mean I wouldn't know how else to describe that particular group without using the word non-binary because that's the word that they use so to say you know that the word non-binary is a creation of the left to cause division I I couldn't I couldn't necessarily it is I the political term it was born out of Gender Studies classes it wasn't born out of transsexual people saying well maybe this word works as well and that's that is my point is that I think you're the one that said that I was erasing you as trans I I am like you're not trans like there's a medical definition of being a transsexual and being but what if those not mattering people do you suffer from gender dysphoria Jaime how you do I mean that doesn't make you trans to just suffer from gender dysphoria being trans is having dinner dysphoria and acting upon it to live a life of sexual I think that's different I'm I'm gonna stop you Jaime how are you doing okay okay yeah do you feel like talking you don't have to okay Brendon can I can I say really quick but you know Terminator and actual and transgender were made up right they were clinical terms in a lot of ways initially so we can't use that as like a way of like demeaning people in our community I mean it's really unfortunate that we have to do that when we know outside of this room people don't see any of us or treat any of us with respect but you know why I think the large reason why a lot of people do not understand trans people is because of non-binary and because of all these other identities that we've all talked about are constantly tacked on to the acronym that always worked okay but how is it different when assists woman tells you this you're not a woman or for you to then tell Jaime that they're not friends Jaime you have something to say yes I think this argument has absurd this idea of you're creating more problems you're creating more division you're creating more confusion because that same argument has been used by gays and lesbians against trans people I think it sounds like another argument isn't an argument it doesn't mean it's invalid saying no but it's the exact same logic of saying we're trying to be part of the state you are making this too complicated and in working with the state I'm working with the Trump administration in order to create inclusivity you are erasing me and you're leaving me behind I don't believe in a politic that leaves people behind I say we start from the back see who is the most marginalized see what they need and get their needs first and then everyone explore it at the exact same time do you all feel welcomed by the LGBTQ community the LGBT community is very open to people who believe in the monolith that is known as the LGBTQ community that's interesting yeah I don't I don't think I don't think that they're accepting towards LGBT people with different viewpoints at all okay okay I had a very interesting experience two weeks ago at pride in West Hollywood my husband and I were at a restaurant I was wearing my hat and within a minute or so to women stormed our table and began cussing at me yawn it may screaming and one question like what do you think about gay marriage and I said well this is my husband so I'm for it how about the way he treats Mexicans and I said my name is Ramirez I'm mexican-american and I kind of shut them down with them they continued to yell and scream and try to incite the restaurant against us but I'm I think that the intelligent conversations I've had via the mag AHA have gone much further than the negative vitriol that that is inside of others so it's also a conversation starter fruits okay all right Raquel do you have thoughts on this I mean I think that there is merit in the conversation of not everyone feeling welcome I don't always feel welcome as a as a black trans woman in every space I still think a lot of the spaces that we have that are designated LGBTQ are so dominated by whites as gay men who tend to look a certain way and tend to move through the world in a certain way and bright and so on I find my most power in spaces that are specifically for black and brown trans folks and I you know I believe in that Tony how are you navigating through the LGBT community has been very fascinating for me because I used to feel very comfortable and lesbian bars and then when I started to present more masculine that kind of went away and actually one of my most recent experiences at a lesbian bar was being harassed and assaulted at a lesbian bar in New York City so that was like this crazy shake-up of my whole life changing and then as I mentioned I I am married to a cisgender woman and we were at Stonewall of all places and there was a table of I'm assuming I'm making assumption here sis gay men there who saw us kiss and it was like a cute little like hi baby kiss and we got the ill breeders when are you doing his Stonewall thing and it was like wow kid you have no idea first of all I could have birthed you and you know have been fighting for you know liberation gay liberation queer liberation for longer than you've been around but that's the assumption that they make based on what I look like now I can't believe that you've got 12 gay people here and nobody feels at home in the gay community a community I think and I think that speaks to look each of us has our own individual experiences right we're all humans who just want to like live in the world and and be accepted for who we are and that was sort of what the community used to be and I think part of what were suffering from is the difference between what it meant to be a community of people that was all across the spectrum to being apolitical shoehorned into a political movement you know the the idea that we all have to row in the same direction politically you know is is I think a problem for us as a community are there any questions that you would like to ask each other and if I could ask a question to Blair just to close to I'm curious what you think about the gender binary as a trans person who has experienced dysphoria and I also experienced dysphoria and I think the root of dysphoria and these feelings of transness is because there is a binary because there's a limiting construct social construct that tells people they can be one thing or the other that can be feminine or masculine and I think as a non-binary person non-binary people are actually in the front lines of deconstructing that binary and breaking down those systems of limitation and restriction that I think will allow all of us to be freer so I'm just curious like what what truly is your problem with me because I'm fighting for you I don't have a home with you personally I don't know anything about your life personally I would say well you said then about breaking down the binary but you're kind of just automatically assuming that that is in the best interest of trans people and that's what trans people want I personally have never met a transsexual or trans woman who thinks that that is the way to go in terms of getting acceptance from the larger and okay the first one and you're the first one I know you're miss understand what I say when I when I say break the binary I don't say like get rid of femininity get rid of masculinity get what a rid of women get rid of men I'm not saying that whatsoever I'm saying open up the options let people be and live and exist as their full authentic selves outside of these women I'm not here to limit anyone's options or say that you can't call yourself what you want I mean I have my wallet back I have an issue with trans people people that are not translating they're trans when they're not that's what I have an issue with because I don't have an issue with the non-binary label besides me thinking okay there's not really a ton of science behind it that's fine I don't like I don't like how in the beginning you said that non-binary you consider that to also be trans and that that falls under trans because I think I think that because I think that that again dilutes the message it D medicalize is it which i think is very very bad for trans people I think I'm fine Aryan people need medical intervention as well we need health care we need and that's fine and that's why I would say that I would hope that you guys would you know if you're going to advocate for that do it on behalf of yourselves and not try to squeeze into the tea label a label that historically we are still trying to get people to just understand and be halfway okay with and it doesn't help when 97 genders were squeezed into the tea label because the end of the day at the end of the day being trans is about for most trans people it is about I was born as a boy born as a girl and I identify as the other and what I find often times is this conversation really good example of how non-binary people really dominate the conversation about being trans is that I will get comments sometimes on my Instagram people accusing me of believing in 97 genders and and all those sort of things that are touted by non-binary people just because I'm trans that's a good example of how people don't know what trans is then because trans people are transitioning from one to the other I mean this is a conversation about language too because you're saying most trans people understand transition as a binary if you actually look at research 50% of trans youth identify as non-binary it's a growing community listen to angry but they were always there non-binary feeling something that stated before agree now there's nothing wrong about what you're doing you've just made it political I think that you have a very narrow definition of what trans is and then and that could be respected but that is that just doesn't work for you generalize a lot of trans people you say it for most parents – for most trans people and then I look to my left I'm almost finished so now I look to my left and she's like well she doesn't agree with you and also all of my trans sisters and all my trans brothers that I have in my life support me and they know I support them and they want me to come along with them on this journey as a non-binary person because they know that in order for any of us to be free we all have to be free so that's what that's where my perspective is under your perspective is different thank you for your free on thank you darling I hate it don't tell me what I am good I know that this conversation has been hard for some people I know that you're probably gonna go home and you're gonna think about this and I want to thank you for being here because it's not everybody who's willing to engage in these kinds of conversations this is a difficult thing to do and I have immense respect for each and every one of you for for showing up I really do so thank you so much thank you and with that thank you thank you I think we're gonna wrap this up my god I didn't even ask

Maurice Vega

45 Responses

  1. TIMECODES OF WHAT WAS DISCUSSED:
    00:29 – does Pete Buttigieg being gay make you want to vote for him?
    2:08 – Identity Politics (things get heated)
    3:20 – Pete Buttigieg as representation for LGBTQ+ people
    3:55 – How do people feel about the terms GNC ("gender non-conforming") and "non-binary?"
    11:08 – do you feel welcomed by the LGBTQ+ community?
    14:29 – The Gender Binary

  2. OMG I LOL’d at 9:30 when the moderator asked Jamey “how are you doing” and Jamey’s pampered ass pretended to be all traumatized MY GOD these leftists are full of SHIT.

  3. I identify as a helicopter , I feel discriminated against because there is not enough helipads in town ! What about my rights ?

  4. I am leaning with agreeing with Blaire but to say they weren't transgender was just kinda non constructive and more or less a shot at that person then anything. I think if she would have said "you're not non binary", that would have been more accurate to what she was getting at, but what do I know.

  5. The right wing has always been anti LGBT and has been the push back all this time as progressives have been fighting for our rights and social inclusion so yes of course we are gonna feel some type of way when an LGBT person supports the right wing. None of our progression over the last few decades would have been possible without progressives.

  6. We stray from Gods light every day

    This is one reason god will clean this world and save REAL MEN and WOMEN to start again

  7. These so called conservatives and republicans are one reason why I have never voted red and probably never will.

  8. I'll throw in my two cents. I'm bi but i just say that because its easier for my family and friends to understand. I more closely relate to pan. I think queer is a great word because it's quick, simple and just says "hey I'm not normal". Also don't talk about my sexuality because it is my personal business and only tell people i care about. If the first thing i know about you is that your queer i think you must be very boring.

  9. People should learn what a specious argument is. 2 things can be true at the same time.

    Talking about your own subjectivity does not erase or effect another's.

    There's nothing wrong with privilege and people should not be silenced because of it.

  10. I appreciate the conservative la who want what is best for country and not what is best for them and their group.

  11. Imagine being so insecure about your identity that someone dismissing it causes you to cry.

    "50% of Trans Youth identify as NB."
    So, we are trusting people who choose to self-identify? And children?

    I would qualify as NB since I am a Tomboyish female who wears men's T-shirts despite my small and feminine physique.
    NB just reinforces the gender binary. They say that because they are a feminine man, they can't just be a man. Because you're a masculine woman, you can't just be a woman.

    NB ain't trans. It's different.

  12. What I got from this, which is not surprising, is that those from the group who were right win, were not inclusive of everybody else in their ideas and way of thinking/living. The fact that their political beliefs are towards the right, explains a lot about how they feel about / include people who identify differently, in their policies and community ( but mainly it brings out the lack of inclusion )

  13. 11:00 'find out whose marginalized and cater to their needs first'. Yea, this is the exact victim and entitled mentality that makes me hate identity politics.. Thses people add dozens of labels to increase their victim hood and now the believe they're entitled to everything. It's a serious problem, stop being victims and be a useful part of society.

  14. Real conservatives wouldnt discuss lgbtgojdsofjpsdipjf+ crap. There are only 2 genders, the rest are mentally ill ppl.

  15. It felt like they weren’t trying to understand each other’s positions or rebut anything but instead argue about ideology, get snagged by semantics and who is most oppressed.

  16. Sorry
    Ok first I don’t care who is who etc
    But if the lgbtq plus can’t or don’t know
    Then how the hell are we meant too.
    Again I don’t care if you are gay,trans,queer or whatever
    But how are we meant to know all your pro nouns just looking at you.
    That’s it
    No offence intended
    Live life be free and happy
    Love to the lgbtq and whatever else community.

  17. Immediately cutting off a valid argument by checking a grown person's feelings just because they started to cry lol. The title said it was a debate for crying out loud.

  18. What the fuck. You fags are ruining our society. I honestly don’t care if you suck dick or take it in the ass, just keep that shit to yourselves.

  19. I’m with the guy in the middle back row with the maga hat,over this virtual signalling politically correct identity politics.
    White lady in the front the hate is spread by msm sweetie.
    The black young lady in the front please go listen to candace Owens,you could learn a lot or Morgan Freeman.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Post comment